|
|
Post by Brewers GM (Brad) on Feb 28, 2017 9:16:25 GMT -5
UPDATE : Royals have been awarded pick 3.31(a) as compensation for the passing of Y Ventura, as per our poll results.
This poll closes midnight Friday. Compensation was given for the loss of Jose Fernandez (a 1st and 2nd comp pick), and while the two are questionable comps, it's worth considering compensation for Ventura as well. This is a simple yes or no to the question above. No additional or lesser compensation is in consideration. Thanks for voting!
|
|
|
|
Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Feb 28, 2017 10:08:15 GMT -5
The two players were vastly different talents. We'd say the league needs to set up criteria for who/what merits compensation, not just vote incident to incident as they appear.
Fine to award Royals a pick for Ventura, but we need to establish/publish a concrete rule, or else the league no doubt will face a more difficult and divided situation.
We, for one, would not have awarded two Rd #1 picks for Fernandez, who we admired greatly. In neither case -- especially with Ventura -- do their deaths shatter their respective franchises. We lost Fernandez in a league we run (High and Tight Dynasty) and did not even ask owners for a vote on compensation.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brewers GM (Brad) on Feb 28, 2017 11:00:39 GMT -5
Even a criteria would be debatable. To be clear these decisions are generally made by myself with the admins advice, I just thought a poll would be interesting.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 16:10:22 GMT -5
I think at least a 3rd round pick
|
|
|
|
Post by Marlins GM (Anthony) on Feb 28, 2017 16:13:56 GMT -5
Two people said NO?! Reveal yourselves!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Brewers GM (Brad) on Feb 28, 2017 21:55:42 GMT -5
I was one. I'm fine with comp being given for Ventura, but baseball-value wise he had turned into a league average or worse starter with only two more cost controlled years. Nothing like the value lost from J Fernandez' untimely passing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Marlins GM (Anthony) on Mar 1, 2017 13:24:37 GMT -5
I doubt anyone is comparing the late Jose and Yordano in terms of fantasy impact, that's for sure.
That said in tragedies like this, because they are so rare, it seems pretty fair to the owner that they get something as little as a 3rd Rd. Pick which...might be a guy 3-4 years away? 40-45 FV? Pick may not even make an impact at the ML level.
Anywho, I'm in the camp that thinks there was a lot more to Ventura as well. Debuted at 21 years old, 80 grade FB, 60 CV. In 3 prof. seasons his FIP stacks up against the likes of Odorizzi, Teheran, Happ, Desclafani to name a few. All of those guys are considered Top 50 SP.
|
|
|
|
Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Mar 1, 2017 14:48:24 GMT -5
Once you get into compensating teams for lost players you enter a tar-baby situation. Nothing good can come of this.
Having said that, as long as there is some sort of definite criteria for who gets what compensation. Maybe something like position rank or Top 300 MLB placement. etc. But in any case there should be something preordained, set in stone rule governing the compensation.
By the way, we voted yes for the Sup Rd 3 - sort of a new owner bonus. Don't think Ventura is anywhere near the pitcher Fernandez was. And we were against the Fernandez compensation.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 21:10:04 GMT -5
I am the 3rd no, in case anybody wants to know.
I wasnt around for the Fernandez comp and would have voted no as well. In no way shape or form should any comp be given for this type of thing. It doesnt happen in the majors and it shouldnt happen in fantasy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 0:19:13 GMT -5
The way I look at it is how would that team likely have been compensated if the player was a RFA and they decided to decline. Fernandez definitely would have garnered $20M+ annually(2 1st round supps). Ventura likely would have prolly been between 8-12M annually(1st or 2nd).
|
|
|
|
Post by Marlins GM (Anthony) on Mar 2, 2017 11:01:54 GMT -5
I am the 3rd no, in case anybody wants to know. I wasnt around for the Fernandez comp and would have voted no as well. In no way shape or form should any comp be given for this type of thing. It doesnt happen in the majors and it shouldnt happen in fantasy. There are many, many ways this league differs MLB (or any league for that matter). As much as some of us probably want to believe we're real GM's in here, we're not. This is Fantasy and mostly supposed to be fun  That said, I think the point is that it's a nice gesture to the Orioles who just lost not only his best player/asset, but also one of the Top 10 players in baseball to a tragedy. What the Twins (Trevor) also pointed out, is probably the best way of simplifying it. Jose Fernandez would have easily brought back a Two 1st Rd. Comp picks had The Orioles decided not to retain him. Or, he could have traded him for a kings ransom. Yordano, likely a 3rd Rd. Pick if KC chose not to re-sign him. In a lighter context...I also vote to that Steve has to change his name to the Tampa Bay Savages. Steve coming in hard w/ the no comp. picks!! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 11:35:12 GMT -5
I absolutely agree that it is supposed to be fun and there are differences, however, this type of thing is no different than injury( and I am referring to baseball activities not life, big difference ). Mets just lost Reyes for a year plus... sucks but that's part of the game.
Savages, hmmm.. lol.
|
|
|
|
Post by Athletics GM (Wayne) on Mar 2, 2017 11:49:56 GMT -5
I voted yes, but the Rays just made a very good point about devastating injuries. Being new to the league, I think that players that passed away pose no penalty dollar-wise to their team. Maybe that is enough compensation.
|
|
|
|
Post by Marlins GM (Anthony) on Mar 2, 2017 12:05:57 GMT -5
Jose Fernandez was $500k and so was Yordano.
That's some kind of cap relief.
|
|
|
|
Post by Athletics GM (Wayne) on Mar 2, 2017 14:18:35 GMT -5
Yes, but to the point about injuries. SP that have TJ surgery are usually out about 1.5 yrs. I'm sure that some of them have had huge salaries.
|
|
|
|
Post by Angels GM (Scott) on Mar 3, 2017 9:21:00 GMT -5
I don't think league management wants to open up a can of worms. These situations are rare and as such should be up to the discretion of league management with due consideration to the health and balance of the league.
As for not considering comp because real life they don't... consider this... real life Royals can call up a replacement but fantasy Royals can't just make the Nationals call up Eric Fedde.
|
|
|
|
Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Mar 3, 2017 9:26:39 GMT -5
We brought up the compensation issue over at High and Tight, just to get a perspective, and so far the vote is 8to1 against compensation.
We lost Jose Fernandez last year and it probably cost us the title, and we didn't post a thread to discuss it, didn't even broach the subject of compensation. No one would have agreed to it, anyway. heh
|
|
|
|
Post by Angels GM (Scott) on Mar 3, 2017 9:30:59 GMT -5
The difference in value is significantly less in a 17 team league than 30. Economics tell us that replacement opportunities are more plentiful when you have less demand for the same pool of assets
|
|
|
|
Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Mar 3, 2017 9:42:04 GMT -5
True, H&T has fewer teams. But, the negative vote there seems more about owners being against any sort of compensation for something like this than strictly about replacement value. We read it as strongly against compensation for any reason. And that is the reasnng we are getting from posts on this thread, too... that death is just part of the game.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brewers GM (Brad) on Mar 3, 2017 9:51:34 GMT -5
That's the message you're getting? The arguments are coming from both sides - I love a good debate - but the poll numbers point to clear majority in favor of compensation.
What Scott said previously encapsulates how this league handles compensation. And the arguments and votes we've seen on his thread will certainly be a part of that thought process if and when there is a decision like this to be made in the future.
"These situations are rare and as such should be up to the discretion of league management with due consideration to the health and balance of the league."
|
|
