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Post by Marlins GM (Anthony) on Jun 9, 2017 14:04:19 GMT -5
Could be in the rules somewhere but I'm curious either way...
Why are teams allowed to store ML players on their MiLB rosters? Not talking about PP players. Talking about guys w/ serious service time.
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Post by Angels GM (Scott) on Jun 9, 2017 14:30:44 GMT -5
They aren't allowed and shouldn't be doing this.
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Post by Marlins GM (Anthony) on Jun 9, 2017 14:33:18 GMT -5
I didn't think so.
2nd question. Is this correctable on Fantrax? Or is this just an "Honor System" situation?
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Post by Angels GM (Scott) on Jun 9, 2017 14:37:42 GMT -5
Honor system. League admin, upon seeing examples, could certainly reach out to whoever is doing so and remind them of the requirement that salaried(non pp) players must be on the active roster or the bench
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Jun 9, 2017 15:56:25 GMT -5
We think ALL MLB players should be only on MLB roster, not stashed in minors and streamed onto majors rosters. Teams could potentially carry a dozen of starters (or any position players they wanted to) and stream them up and down all year. Imagine the pitching stats they could accumulate. Disallowed in most serious leagues. Who would dream up such a rule?
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Post by Marlins GM (Anthony) on Jun 9, 2017 16:18:31 GMT -5
We think ALL MLB players should be only on MLB roster, not stashed in minors and streamed onto majors rosters. Teams could potentially carry a dozen of starters (or any position players they wanted to) and stream them up and down all year. Imagine the pitching stats they could accumulate. Disallowed in most serious leagues. Who would dream up such a rule? Look at El Guapo...making sense. Btw Guapo...what you're doing. Never allowed in any league I've ever played in so be thankful it's allowed here. 
But seriously, I agree on this point. ML Players should never be allowed to be stored on MiLB rosters. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 17:26:02 GMT -5
But they are fine to be put in the minors if they are sent down, correct?
Also, I see a lot of owners doing this. There needs to be some sort of a repercussion.
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Jun 9, 2017 19:56:00 GMT -5
We play in another league where it's also allowed to stream MLB players up and down if they are PP. We fond this ridiculous. Only minors should be stashed in the minors. Allowing MLB players to be streamed is excessive. Leads to streaming and absurdly bloated rosters. Makesa joke of the idea of limiting rosters to 25 or 28 or however many players is the max.
We happen to have acquire a pretty hefty number of very strong prospective starter. If they all pan out (obviously they all won't), we could have a roster of a dozen starters, all streamed up and down in a revolving rotation that would accumulate ridiculous stats numbers -- and that's not counting any future additions we might acquire.
Are point is that should not be acceptable in any rational system. Teams should have to make choices and be limited to how many starters they could carry. Same is true for other position as well but to lesser extent, of course. Streaming catchers or shortstops or OFers is just as absurd; it just isn't as common as SP and RP.
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Post by Brewers GM (Brad) on Jun 9, 2017 20:28:24 GMT -5
Every league is a little different. I know that's obvious, but it bears repeating. Most serious leagues (like this one, I would argue) have some sort of wrinkle that diverges from "non-fantasy" baseball. It's what makes each of the leagues uniquely interesting, imo. If the goal were for all leagues to replicate exactly the roster and current CBA rules, then we wouldn't see any wrinkles to the game. We are playing a game here.
Here is a tip for anyone who hasn't figured this out yet. The ability to move Protected Players (PP) between your Milb and MLB roster makes them SUPER FREAKING VALUABLE. That's the game. I'm always open to rule changes, but not based on opinions of what is a "serious league". 30 people playing this particular game, with all the time commitment and necessary dorking out on specs, obsure roster moves and such seems serious enough to me. I'm seriously trying to win, anyway.
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Post by Athletics GM (Wayne) on Jun 9, 2017 20:57:12 GMT -5
If a PP player is on the minors roster, it is usually because they are not producing.
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Post by Marlins GM (Anthony) on Jun 9, 2017 21:29:44 GMT -5
I was talking about non PP players...
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Jun 9, 2017 21:34:04 GMT -5
Why would a major league player be in the minors at all? Only minor league players are in the minor. If they aren't producing, they are minor leaguers.
Look at our minor league prospect SP. We aren't saying they're all future aces, but we have a fairly decent stash of arms, with many of them the top pitching prospect for their respective clubs. And we own a lot of them. Okay, so some may not pan out. But many of them appear - so far - to be top flight major league arms, at least competent, if not stars. How many exactly? No one knows.
Abreu, Albert SP/NYY
Alcantara, Sandy SP/STL
Allard, Kolby SP/ATL
Allen, Logan SP/SD
Alvarez, Yadier SP/LAD
Cease, Dylan SP/CHC
Clarke, Taylor SP/ARI
De La Cruz, Oscar SP/CHC
Hansen, Alec SP/CHW
Fanti, Nick RP/PHI
Jimenez, Melvin SP/LAD
Kaprielian, James SP/NYY
Littrell, Corey SP/STL
McKenzie, Triston SP/CLE
Morejon, Adrian SP/SD
Muller, Kyle SP/ATL
Paddack, Chris SP/SD
Payano, Pedro SP/TEX
Severino, Luis SP/NYY
Thorpe, Lewis SP/MIN
White, Mitchell SP/LAD
Wood, Hunter SP/TB
Okay, some of them may not develop well. Others may end up injured or end up working out of the pen. But, we have a hunch we will have a lot of very strong starter. By our count (biased, maybe) we come up with anywhere from 10 to fourteen very strong candidates for #1/#2 through #3/4 SP... a whole lot of #1/#2's.
How can you possibly say that we should be allowed to stream them? And, for sure we'll be adding some more quality pitching through Signing Bonus bidding and FYPD. Who knows how many we'll end up with? What if we end up with 15 or 20 high-end SP, all streaming, gathering stats?
That just does not seem right. Ruins the idea of building a legit 25(28) man roster and competing against other owners.
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Post by z - Gaz on Jun 10, 2017 6:12:03 GMT -5
You're not on your high horse again are you, Guapo?
Maybe field a full team of players who are actually collecting stats before calling other people's use of their rosters absurd. Thanks.
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Jun 10, 2017 6:15:12 GMT -5
The thread seemed to invite comments and discussion, so we figured we'd mention a few things others might consider. All we're doing is pointing out the potential flaw in the league structure. As currently structured, teams have nine pitcher slots, but potentially can stream a multitude of SP/RP for stats.
We are suggesting everyone maybe think about limiting that somehow -- maybe limit the minor league roster to minor league players? Thinking about things and maybe making some adjustments is not so bad, is it, Gaz?
We are just using our MiLB roster as an example of what can happen. Add draftees and signing bonus arms to that list over the next few seasons and the list gets potentially pretty frickin formidable. The same could potentially be said for any other club.
Right now our MLB rosters have nine of position-players slots, nine pitcher slots and seven reserve slots -- 25 total MLB slots. That allows owners to emphasize which ever idea suits them. An owner can carry a ton of relievers or starters and neglect his bench bats; or he can do the reverse and emphasize his offensive bench slots and go with fewer starters, or fewer RP, maintaining a balance of arms and bats, etc. But those strategies and limitations are vitiated by unlimited PP-player streaming.
And, no, we are not mounted; thinking from level ground.
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Post by z - Gaz on Jun 10, 2017 6:15:40 GMT -5
Also,getting back to the point, I would hope people aren't keeping non PP guys in their minors. There's a reason there's a limit on bench spots and it makes PP guys that bit more valuable.
As Brad rightly pointed out, it's nice to have different rules in different leagues. The same rules in each league is boring. It's probably why a lot of us started playing this format to begin with instead of endless 12 team Yahoo redrafts.
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Post by Brewers GM (Brad) on Jun 10, 2017 6:18:42 GMT -5
God, those we boring.
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Post by z - Tim on Jun 11, 2017 18:57:34 GMT -5
You're not on your high horse again are you, Guapo? Maybe field a full team of players who are actually collecting stats before calling other people's use of their rosters absurd. Thanks. I do think if theres a flaw, comparatively its a much bigger flaw that teams are allowed to not field a major league roster. That said I do sympathize with the extreme amounts of streaming PP guys allow in some leagues. It gives a few teams w PP SP depth a significant advantage. But thats not really an issue in here. Remember that teams have an IP cap in our playoffs. So, streaming advantages are largely wiped out. You cant really stream if theres a real cap like we have. You can rosterbate a bit, but you cant win just by playing more guys. |
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Jun 11, 2017 19:09:53 GMT -5
Maybe we don't understand. Seems having a ton of PP pitchers all "graduating around the same time would give a team an enormous stats advantage. Our club is likely going to graduate a bunch of SP around the same time and have them PP eligible for quite a while, so we aren't opposing the current structure for selfish reasons. We just thought streaming that many pitchers would be an unfair advantage. Most leagues restrict the number of pitchers a club can carry (both SP and RP) for just this reason.
Maybe someone can explain how a team streaming ten or twelve starters wouldn't have an advantage...
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Post by z - Tim on Jun 11, 2017 19:29:01 GMT -5
you cant get all their starts if you have a bunch of those guys. 60 IP per week max in playoffs. realistically that translates to a full bullpen and 5-6 starters unless your guys are having short/bad outings. depth is still good for injury cover or if you want to platoon or spot start. but you cant win simply by streaming more IP in this league with the cap.
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Jun 11, 2017 20:35:55 GMT -5
We weren't discussing the play-offs, just the regular season. MLB players stashed in the minors and streamed onto MLB roster is crazy. Why specify a 25-player MLB roster limit? Why have players designated as MLB or minor league players if you're going to allow MLB players to be stashed in the minors? Why say in the rules that we are limited to 4 SP, 4 RP and 2 P if you can stream players up and down all year? Might as well do away with the pitching slots structure in the rules.
This is the part that doesn't make any sense and allows for the streaming abuse: Protected Players can be sent to the minors with no penalty attached.
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