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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Dec 9, 2017 18:06:28 GMT -5
NY Mets are also shopping for a 2B guy, having inquired at Detroit and Cleveland. Probably would be that hard for Marlins to flip Castro.
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Dec 9, 2017 18:08:30 GMT -5
Just saw this on mlbtraderumors:
The Mets may have a new option in their pursuit of a second baseman. Following today’s Giancarlo Stanton trade agreement, the Marlins are on track to acquire Starlin Castro, meaning they could be marketing a new second baseman just days after trading Dee Gordon to the Mariners. According to Mike Puma of the New York Post, the Mets plan to speak with the Marlins regarding Castro. The 27-year-old Castro is a great hitter (.300 batting average in 2017), but his offensive value is somewhat held back by his lack of patience (4.9 BB%). Furthermore, he hasn’t provided much in the way of defensive value over the past two seasons. Still, Castro would be an upgrade over any of the current options on the Mets’ depth chart, and he’s been a roughly average big-league player on the whole during his eight-year MLB career. Castro might not require much in the way of a prospect return, either, and he can be controlled through the 2020 season if his club chooses to exercise a $16MM option.
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Post by z - Tim on Dec 9, 2017 18:10:25 GMT -5
angels are the team that really need a 2b, likely starlins defense will give them pause as they have plenty of bats but they are a good spot for any 2B
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Post by Marlins GM (Anthony) on Dec 9, 2017 19:46:28 GMT -5
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Post by Brewers GM (Brad) on Dec 9, 2017 20:12:57 GMT -5
That article pretty much hits it on the head. And who is there to devour the stinking, rotten flesh? The Yankees.
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Dec 10, 2017 6:51:43 GMT -5
If this is a bad trade at all, it's bad for the Yanks. The Marlins dump a terrible contract -- worse than a bad contract, it was a team strangling albatross. And the guy had told them he didn't want to be on the team anymore. They also get a pretty good young arm in the process, and they can flip Starlin Castro or play him. He is young and a pretty decent bat.
The Yankees, on the other hand, pick up what looks like a strong middle of the order bat but one they didn't particularly need, already having two -- Sanchez and Judge. Of course there is nothing wrong with having three. heh
But Stanton comes with a monster long-term contract and an opt out after three years. Both the long-term pricey contract and the opt out clause have proven disastrous -- especially for the Yankees. They have been trying to clear their books for years now. No, when they are on the brink of being free of those mega contracts, they choose to bring in another one.
There are positives in Stanton, for sure. He is not some ding-a-ling. He will put a lot of fans in the stands. He will probably sell a look of jerseys and TV subscriptions. And the Yankees always strive to get the biggest names in the sport -- aka Ohtani, who they just missed out on. In fact missing out on Ohtani (who they really needed) may be the underlying reason they plumped for Stanton. They are close to the winning -- missing out on the World Series by one game.
We'll see how this trade works out, but we'd say the Marlins made out better, cleared mega salary and got usable pieces; the Yanks, not so well -- spectacular in the moment, but very dangerous long-term. They could be strangled by Stanton's salary for years or, maybe even worse, they could be forced to up Stanton's contract when his opt out comes around.
We like Guzman, but the Yankees had to give up someone (wish it had been a lesser talent) -- but they have a wealth of quality pitching in their system.
Giancarlo is a horse; he will light up the night many times over the next year or two, maybe even longer. But long term? Quien sabe? He'll end up on 1B, then at DH, then who knows? More arguments about the Yankees always signing large, bad contracts.
Final analysis, getting Guzman and the usable Castro, plus ridding themselves of $265MM tilts the trade to the Marlins side. It's the side we think "won" the trade.
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Post by z - Gaz on Dec 10, 2017 7:08:37 GMT -5
Hahahaha.
Nonsense.
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Dec 10, 2017 7:29:15 GMT -5
Yeah, we know, Gaz -- tedious drivel. heh heh
Here's Stantin's contract:
15:$6.5M, 16:$9M, 17:$14.5M, 18:$25M, 19:$26M, 20:$26M, 21:$29M, 22:$29M, 23:$32M, 24:$32M, 25:$32M, 26:$29M, 27:$25M, 28:$25M club option ($10M buyout)
That's ten years or maybe eleven with the option year. How many of these monster have worked out for the team taking them on? They almost all go south. Props to the Marlins were able to get out from under, despite people like you who are more concerned with sending a good player to the Yankees than they are about doing what's best for the team that's ridding itself of a terrible contract signed by a previous owner, one who cared very little for the team he owned.
Even the Dodgers, who have more money than God, weren't going to send Miami anyone nearly as good as Castro and Guzman and wanted to stick the Fish with Adrian Gonzalez and Scott Kasmir contracts to take Stanton. Where were the Marlins gonna go with this? They had a buyer and they made their move. They now cleaned their books and can start their re-build. Still have valuable pieces they can move (including Castro) if they want to, but they aren't hamstrung by Stanton's no-trade threats and enormous salary any more.
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Post by z - Gaz on Dec 10, 2017 7:54:53 GMT -5
It just means the Yankees aren't throwing $400m at Harper next year.
There is no argument that makes this a win for the Marlins. Trying to say it is complete nonsense - or trolling.
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Post by Marlins GM (Anthony) on Dec 10, 2017 9:06:31 GMT -5
If this is a bad trade at all, it's bad for the Yanks. The Marlins dump a terrible contract -- worse than a bad contract, it was a team strangling albatross. And the guy had told them he didn't want to be on the team anymore. They also get a pretty good young arm in the process, and they can flip Starlin Castro or play him. He is young and a pretty decent bat. The Yankees, on the other hand, pick up what looks like a strong middle of the order bat but one they didn't particularly need, already having two -- Sanchez and Judge. Of course there is nothing wrong with having three. heh But Stanton comes with a monster long-term contract and an opt out after three years. Both the long-term pricey contract and the opt out clause have proven disastrous -- especially for the Yankees. They have been trying to clear their books for years now. No, when they are on the brink of being free of those mega contracts, they choose to bring in another one. There are positives in Stanton, for sure. He is not some ding-a-ling. He will put a lot of fans in the stands. He will probably sell a look of jerseys and TV subscriptions. And the Yankees always strive to get the biggest names in the sport -- aka Ohtani, who they just missed out on. In fact missing out on Ohtani (who they really needed) may be the underlying reason they plumped for Stanton. They are close to the winning -- missing out on the World Series by one game. We'll see how this trade works out, but we'd say the Marlins made out better, cleared mega salary and got usable pieces; the Yanks, not so well -- spectacular in the moment, but very dangerous long-term. They could be strangled by Stanton's salary for years or, maybe even worse, they could be forced to up Stanton's contract when his opt out comes around. We like Guzman, but the Yankees had to give up someone (wish it had been a lesser talent) -- but they have a wealth of quality pitching in their system. Giancarlo is a horse; he will light up the night many times over the next year or two, maybe even longer. But long term? Quien sabe? He'll end up on 1B, then at DH, then who knows? More arguments about the Yankees always signing large, bad contracts. Final analysis, getting Guzman and the usable Castro, plus ridding themselves of $265MM tilts the trade to the Marlins side. It's the side we think "won" the trade. Marlins were 21st in payroll, they were not crippled by that contract. And again, if they kept him he was most certainly opting out in 3 years anyways. So disregard the rest of the contract. The Marlins were never going to be on the hook for that. Also, Giancarlo never said he didn't want to be on the team. He said he didn't want to be part of a rebuild. Marlins were the ones shopping him. Giancarlo never demanded a trade. The Marlins didn't have to blow it up. They could have traded Ozuna, Prado and meh prospects to be competitive for a few years. I'm not saying is ideal, but for a market like Miami? They're not getting guys like that. He's probably the best player they've ever had. But, I'm sure the couple farts they got for him will prove me wrong in 6 years. |
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Post by Angels GM (Scott) on Dec 10, 2017 10:27:24 GMT -5
I don't buy that Jeter gift wrapped this to Yankees. The circumstances caused this. Yankees were the only team Stanton would approve that was willing to pony up 90% of the contract. Castro will likely be flipped for some value.
But let's not pretend Yankees didn't get a great deal here. They swooped in like vultures and took advantage of a situation. Stanton would have gotten much more in FA right now than his current contract. WAR is now worth $10m per in FA. Yankees will see a lot of surplus value in this contract.
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Dec 10, 2017 10:38:39 GMT -5
Yep, we agree with Scott. Yankees made a good player acquisition. Stanton is a very good player. But these mega contracts can turn on you like a rabid racoon. Can't even think of one that didn't go sour. Looking though the current Yankees roster is all the reminder you need -- Ellsbury, A-Rod, etc. And non-Yankees like Albery Pujols and Josh Hamilton. etc. Just names off the top of our head. Will Giancarlo Stanton's contract be the next albatross?
We are a Yankees fan, so we want the deal to work for them, but we have strong reservations and worries. It is much easier to live with saving $265 and saying oh well than it is taking on $265M over ten years and saying oh shit in two years.
The ink hardly dries on these deals when they start to stink. When will these guys learn? heh heh
We are not saying the Yankees didn't get a good player or that the New Yorks don't have a lot of money. They can afford Stanton. We are saying this kind of contract usually doesn't work out.
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Post by Athletics GM (Wayne) on Dec 10, 2017 16:31:38 GMT -5
If the Yankees win a couple of World Series, I think they will be very happy with acquiring Stanton!
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Post by z - Tim on Dec 10, 2017 19:45:27 GMT -5
Stanton has huge value for 3 years, then is a $180M risk after that. There is no team better placed to underwrite that liability than Yanks. Add in Stanton limiting the pool of suitors, plus the Yanks having a good MLB piece to offer as $ offset and its just a perfect storm for the Yanks to come out on top. Marlins were never going to play a high stakes game of chicken with a Stanton that had seen oft injured up until last season.
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Post by Phillies GM (Ron) on Dec 12, 2017 0:01:10 GMT -5
If this is a bad trade at all, it's bad for the Yanks. The Marlins dump a terrible contract -- worse than a bad contract, it was a team strangling albatross. And the guy had told them he didn't want to be on the team anymore. They also get a pretty good young arm in the process, and they can flip Starlin Castro or play him. He is young and a pretty decent bat. The Yankees, on the other hand, pick up what looks like a strong middle of the order bat but one they didn't particularly need, already having two -- Sanchez and Judge. Of course there is nothing wrong with having three. heh But Stanton comes with a monster long-term contract and an opt out after three years. Both the long-term pricey contract and the opt out clause have proven disastrous -- especially for the Yankees. They have been trying to clear their books for years now. No, when they are on the brink of being free of those mega contracts, they choose to bring in another one. There are positives in Stanton, for sure. He is not some ding-a-ling. He will put a lot of fans in the stands. He will probably sell a look of jerseys and TV subscriptions. And the Yankees always strive to get the biggest names in the sport -- aka Ohtani, who they just missed out on. In fact missing out on Ohtani (who they really needed) may be the underlying reason they plumped for Stanton. They are close to the winning -- missing out on the World Series by one game. We'll see how this trade works out, but we'd say the Marlins made out better, cleared mega salary and got usable pieces; the Yanks, not so well -- spectacular in the moment, but very dangerous long-term. They could be strangled by Stanton's salary for years or, maybe even worse, they could be forced to up Stanton's contract when his opt out comes around. We like Guzman, but the Yankees had to give up someone (wish it had been a lesser talent) -- but they have a wealth of quality pitching in their system. Giancarlo is a horse; he will light up the night many times over the next year or two, maybe even longer. But long term? Quien sabe? He'll end up on 1B, then at DH, then who knows? More arguments about the Yankees always signing large, bad contracts. Final analysis, getting Guzman and the usable Castro, plus ridding themselves of $265MM tilts the trade to the Marlins side. It's the side we think "won" the trade. As I was saying earlier in the thread if I were the Yankees I wouldn't have included Guzman in this deal, I would've walked right up to the edge and told the Marlins no if Guzman had to be in the trade. Marlins were in no position at all to demand anything other than salary relief. |
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Dec 14, 2017 8:52:04 GMT -5
Dan Connolly of BaltimoreBaseball.com speaks at length about the Orioles in a video. At one point, he makes the case that Baltimore shouldn’t exclude teams like the Yankees and Red Sox with whom they share a division. Rather, the Orioles ought to take whatever is the best package offered, as their goal should simply be to get better now and in the future. Connolly strongly insists that the Orioles not eliminate any trade partners. From my perspective, the Yankees do have some good young pitching in their farm system; something the Orioles are said to be looking for in return for Machado. Meanwhile, Machado would fill a large hole for the Yankees at third base.
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Post by Brewers GM (Brad) on Dec 14, 2017 9:56:43 GMT -5
Wishful thinking, Guapo. In a purely baseball sense, yes, it doesn't make sense to exclude division rivals if you are depriving yourself of the best return. In a PR sense, moving Machado to the Yankees (in particular) or the Red Sox would be a nightmare for the O's. Angelos should trade him to the NL (Cardinals). What I don't understand is why the White Sox would be willing to risk much of the system they have built up on a guy that might only be there for one year. Anyone have insights into their strong showing so far?
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Dec 14, 2017 10:00:09 GMT -5
We assume the Chisox, and every other team with an interest in Machado, would take advantage of a 72-hour window to sign Machado to an extension or new contract, not just take him for a one year rental. Probably would involve giving him the same salary he now gets in 2018 and paying the premium rate and inking him to a long-term deal.
We assumed that was the approach the Yankees would take, thus avoiding luxury taxes and signing Machado on a long-term deal, which they may have probably planned to do anyway once 2018 season is over.
And, yes, we agree trading Machado to NY Yankees would be very hard for Peter Angelos to swallow. Sometimes a good trade for one's franchise does trump personal distaste.
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Dec 14, 2017 10:08:28 GMT -5
Also saw there were 15 players grabbed in the Rd #1 of Rule Five this morning -- three of the 15 were NYY prospects the Yankees did not protect. Their system is so full of top talent they had to leave some significant talent unprotected. Lost were Anyelo Gomez RP, Mike Ford 1B and Nestor Cortes SP.
In Rd #2, two teams made selections.
In Rd #3, only one player was picked - Jose Mesa SP/NYY was selected by the Orioles.
Out of the 18 picks total, four were NY Yankees prospects.
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Post by Marlins GM (Anthony) on Dec 14, 2017 11:03:48 GMT -5
Still trying to figure out what the White Sox are doing here...If it's true, Baltimore wants two controllable SP's then CHW lines up nicely. Kopech + 1 of Giolito, Rodon or Lopez. But if it's much more than that? Or if an extension isn't on the table? I don't understand why the White Sox would even consider it. They have done an incredible job rebuilding that team. Why blow it up for a rental? Albeit a Top 10 player.
And I don't at all buy this, CHW is trading for Machado to trade him elsewhere. That's too risky. You're not giving up elite pieces for other elite pieces, those trades just rarely happen.
And Guapo - Sure, the Yankees could offer a package that's really tough to turn down. Frazier + Adams + Acevedo + ? but these type of deals never happen. And Baltimore, does not want Machado beating their face in for the next decade. He's not going anywhere in their division.
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