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Post by Twins GM (Mike) on Apr 1, 2021 19:32:21 GMT -5
Chasen Shreve Joe Smith Tommy Hunter Andre Scrubb Caleb Thielbar Brooks Raley David Bednar Jason Adam Phil Bickford Tyler Clippard I think guys like Scrubb, Bednar, and Bickford fall under the rule described above and thus would be ineligible. |
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Post by z - Tim on Apr 1, 2021 19:45:15 GMT -5
The 40-man basically allows for constant shuttling to and from the majors. It’d be simpler if we used that in the future. Just an idea. I dont see how it would simpler. Its a lot more simple to see if a guy is up. Fantrax shows it directly. Looking up the 40man takes an extra step, not a hard one I guess, but its not easier. Thats probably just a quibble tho as the real difference isnt that the current version is simpler/easier. The real difference is a lot more guys show up on the 40man, so such a change would open up a lot more guys for contract bidding. Thats probably where the crux. Saving guys for spec bidding in the summer or bidding now. |
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Post by z - Tim on Apr 1, 2021 19:49:14 GMT -5
The 40-man basically allows for constant shuttling to and from the majors. It’d be simpler if we used that in the future. Just an idea. I dont see how it would simpler. Its a lot more simple to see if a guy is up. Fantrax shows it directly. Looking up the 40man takes an extra step, not a hard one I guess, but its not easier (altho perhaps if you are commish and have to verify this stuff the extra ease of just using fantrax is a big help). Thats probably just a quibble tho as the real difference isnt that the current version is simpler/easier. The real difference is a lot more guys show up on the 40man, so such a change would open up a lot more guys for contract bidding. Thats probably the crux. Saving guys for spec bidding in the summer or bidding now. |
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Post by Twins GM (Mike) on Apr 1, 2021 19:54:59 GMT -5
It would be simpler because it would eliminate the step of having to make sure the player was in the majors as of the previous Friday. Every one of these ineligible nominees would become eligible, obviating the current confusion and sparing Brad the trouble of reversing so many premature nominations.
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Post by z - Tim on Apr 1, 2021 20:01:15 GMT -5
It would be simpler because it would eliminate the step of having to make sure the player was in the majors as of the previous Friday. Every one of these ineligible nominees would become eligible, obviating the current confusion and sparing Brad the trouble of reversing so many premature nominations. even that is easier than looking up the 40man, just click on the guys name on fantrax, except in a few cases it will be obvious the guy was up because he played. the 40man you gotta go somewhere else to check, so it still adds more work. i’m not commish, so wouldnt be my call of course, but if i were id say no thank you if i got go somewhere else. I would say if you wanted sthg a little in between that also has some simplicity, it would be to allow anyone with 1AB/.1IP to be bid. Thats easy to verify on fantrax. It would open up bidding on some guys that are on 40man, but would screen out from bidding the guys that arent close to mlb but teams keep on 40man just for protection. |
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Post by Twins GM (Mike) on Apr 1, 2021 20:25:08 GMT -5
It would be simpler because it would eliminate the step of having to make sure the player was in the majors as of the previous Friday. Every one of these ineligible nominees would become eligible, obviating the current confusion and sparing Brad the trouble of reversing so many premature nominations. even that is easier than looking up the 40man, just click on the guys name on fantrax, except in a few cases it will be obvious the guy was up because he played. the 40man you gotta go somewhere else to check, so it still adds more work. i’m not commish, so wouldnt be my call of course, but if i were id say no thank you if i got go somewhere else. I would say if you wanted sthg a little in between that also has some simplicity, it would be to allow anyone with 1AB/.1IP to be bid. Thats easy to verify on fantrax. It would open up bidding on some guys that are on 40man, but would screen out from bidding the guys that arent close to mlb but teams keep on 40man just for protection. I understand what you’re saying about having to look elsewhere, but that’s actually not relevant here. For instance, the only reason to nominate players like Scrubb, Bednar, and Bickford is that they are set to accumulate ML stats, which means that they’re already on the 40-man roster. There’s nothing to look up, on Fantrax or elsewhere. If I had to guess, I would say that fully 100% of the FA nominations Brad has reversed due to ineligibility were 40-man roster guys. To your earlier point about shallowing the prospect pool, in theory I agree that could happen, but only if GMs want to give guaranteed ML contracts to guys like Carlos Vargas, Yoendrys Gomez, or Juan Then, assuming they were available. All of those players are on the 40-man but have to reach AA, let alone the majors. If you want to give Carlos Vargas a three-year ML contract and then have him sit on your bench while he pitches for the Lake County Captains, I’d say be my guest, you know? |
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Post by z - Tim on Apr 1, 2021 20:53:39 GMT -5
even that is easier than looking up the 40man, just click on the guys name on fantrax, except in a few cases it will be obvious the guy was up because he played. the 40man you gotta go somewhere else to check, so it still adds more work. i’m not commish, so wouldnt be my call of course, but if i were id say no thank you if i got go somewhere else. I would say if you wanted sthg a little in between that also has some simplicity, it would be to allow anyone with 1AB/.1IP to be bid. Thats easy to verify on fantrax. It would open up bidding on some guys that are on 40man, but would screen out from bidding the guys that arent close to mlb but teams keep on 40man just for protection. I understand what you’re saying about having to look elsewhere, but that’s actually not relevant here. For instance, the only reason to nominate players like Scrubb, Bednar, and Bickford is that they are set to accumulate ML stats, which means that they’re already on the 40-man roster. There’s nothing to look up, on Fantrax or elsewhere. If I had to guess, I would say that fully 100% of the FA nominations Brad has reversed due to ineligibility were 40-man roster guys. To your earlier point about shallowing the prospect pool, in theory I agree that could happen, but only if GMs want to give guaranteed ML contracts to guys like Carlos Vargas, Yoendrys Gomez, or Juan Then, assuming they were available. All of those players are on the 40-man but have to reach AA, let alone the majors. If you want to give Carlos Vargas a three-year ML contract and then have him sit on your bench while he pitches for the Lake County Captains, I’d say be my guest, you know? the latter thing is the bigger deal (agree to disagree on whats easier, i just prefer fantrax only), i do get how it seems like people wouldnt say bid a contract on gomez or whoever, because of that tradeoff. But id say two things, first all it takes is one or two specs that do matter for it to feel wrong even if most specs we dont care. but also, we have a rule in here where you can use a tag to make a guy pp, so there the tradeoff here isnt what it would be in a league where youd have to bid out gomez on a 5yr deal to make any value, and the be my guest strategy is more of dare, here you can just bid one year and then tag. so the tradeoff isnt hollow. |
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Post by Twins GM (Mike) on Apr 2, 2021 6:34:55 GMT -5
All minors-bound specs are added to the 40-man in December, so (in normal years) they'll be eligible for the prospect draft before they become eligible for FA bidding. Otherwise, I agree that the one-year-bid-and-then-tag approach would be something we'd want to avoid.
Apologies to GMs who came here looking for FA nominees. lol.
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Post by z - Tim on Apr 2, 2021 7:23:37 GMT -5
Spec values change a lot fast tho, so values in June may be very different than in January. But I get where you are coming from, it’s another side, fair enough. Perhaps the issue is the 40 man isn’t just a way station for mlb replacement level players, but teams use it to protect pure prospects too. So, it doesn’t feel like a good fit for identifying who is an MLBer since irl the 40man includes a lot of guys not really close to the show as well. If the tradeoff is not protecting some prospects to get some extra guys to bid, well even if those prospects aren’t the greatest, these MLBers are fringe types so I’d save the prospects.
It’s also just as a general pricnciple, I’d just rather us not open up contract bidding on traditional prospects. That said, part of this is just the 40man is kind of a blunt tool for mlb bidding because it includes specs a ways away too, so if there was a way to let those AAAA guys get bid but not the true specs, well, that would be interesting.........
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Post by Brewers GM (Brad) on Apr 2, 2021 9:25:40 GMT -5
Truth is, I like signing bonus bidding in the other leagues I'm in. I'm usually one of the most active in that market. I know the conversation hasn't been about MLB contract vs SB bidding, but I always like to restate that the rationale for doing it the way we do it here is that it creates different strategic imperatives than most other leagues. It's a different game.
- It's harder to balance the MLB contract load, leading to a better selection of UFA's.
- It dissuades GMs from gobbling up any guy who just made their MLB debut, leading to a better selection of guys at spec bidding and draft time.
- It makes it more likely that non-competitive teams can jump on the opportunity as the more competitive teams often have fuller (more full?) MLB rosters
- It adds importance and usefulness to franchise tags as you can gain valuable PP control (which is a little more scarce, thanks to this rule) with a tag.
To the crux of the discussion, if I have questions about a guys eligibility, I check transaction pages to see when they were called up (and/or sent down, if relevant). It is another step, but it comes up so infrequently that it is not a big issue for me.
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Post by Free Agent Bids on Apr 3, 2021 7:28:24 GMT -5
Week 2 nominations to follow this post
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Post by Twins GM (Mike) on Apr 5, 2021 16:55:57 GMT -5
Yermin Mercedes, C CWS
Phillip Evans, CI PIT
Jed Lowrie, CI OAK
Brock Holt, CI/MI/OF TEX
Chris Owings, MI COL
Sam Haggerty, MI/OF SEA
Billy Hamilton, OF CWS
Chaz McCormick, OF HOU
Kohei Arihara, SP TEX
Matt Harvey, SP/RP BAL
Bruce Zimmermann, SP/RP BAL
Cole Irvin, SP/RP OAK
Duane Underwood, Jr., SP/RP PIT
Wes Benjamin, SP/RP TEX
Hirokazu Sawamura, SP/RP BOS
Ryan Thompson, RP TB
David Bednar, RP PIT
Corey Knebel, RP LAD
Connor Brogdon, RP PHI
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Post by Orioles GM (Ben) on Apr 8, 2021 14:06:00 GMT -5
Cole Irvin
Nate Jones
Lucas Luetge
Tim Mayza
Wade Davis
Chasen Shreve
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Post by Tigers GM (Ian) on Apr 8, 2021 14:55:18 GMT -5
(RP) Hansel Robles
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Apr 8, 2021 17:55:47 GMT -5
John Nogowski 1B/STL
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Post by Free Agent Bids on Apr 9, 2021 23:10:18 GMT -5
Week 3 nominations to follow this post
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Apr 14, 2021 10:44:16 GMT -5
Deolis Guerra RP/Oak
Josh Palacios OF/TOR
Edited: deleted
Corey Knebel RP/LAA
Jose Trevino C/TEX
Ran Searches on all 4 nominees.
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Post by Tigers GM (Ian) on Apr 14, 2021 16:00:13 GMT -5
Deolis Guerra RP/Oak Corey Knebel RP/LAA Jose Trevino C/TEX Josh Palacios OF/TOR I own Jose Trevino |
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Post by z - El Guapo - retired on Apr 14, 2021 17:50:49 GMT -5
Sorry, did a Search and Trevino didn't show.
Deolis Guerra RP/Oak
Corey Knebel RP/LAA
Jose Trevino C/TEX
Josh Palacios OF/TOR
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Post by Orioles GM (Ben) on Apr 15, 2021 16:25:01 GMT -5
Sorry, did a Search and Trevino didn't show. Deolis Guerra RP/Oak Corey Knebel RP/LAA Jose Trevino C/TEXJosh Palacios OF/TOR Cubs won Knebel last week (RP Corey Knebel LAD 3 yrs total 7.8M - 2.6mil per yr) |
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